Brainwashed Benzo Buddies member begs cult to stop .0008mg of benzodiazepine

Jumping vs .0008
« on: July 29, 2019, 08:03:22 pm »

[Buddie]

Down to the last push of a daily microtaper. If you are stable for the most part at a crumb say .0008 of medication. What is the outlook of jumping? I mean is there really any major difference to being on .0008 and zero? Or is the complete absence of the medication something to brace for. I have read mixed reviews, please share you knowledge and experience. Also has anyone jumped from that low of a tapered amount?

Benzo Buddies tells member to hold off going to psych ward, continue suffering

How am I supposed to survive
« on: July 24, 2019, 10:41:05 pm »

[Buddie]

I’ve reached my breaking point. How am I supposed to survive this if I am scared of my own thoughts in general. I’ve had racing, ruminating, looping/earworms, obsessive intrusive thoughts and memories for 8 months straight. Distraction doesn’t work I’ve tried everything. My attention won’t detach from my thoughts.
I am only getting worse as time goes on.

I don’t really know how to survive this.

Can anyone honestly say they have or had mental symtoms this bad.

I’m about to go to the psych ward and have them pump me with whatever. At this point I dont care.

Re: How am I supposed to survive
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2019, 10:54:20 pm »

[Buddie]

Korny, get a grip here.
You are NOT the only one who has truly bad symptoms. I sure did. I went CT off Klonapin 6 mgs and Ambien 10 mgs and 2 SSRIS. Holy hell ensued. That first entire year I was certifiably insane. I had such bad symptoms that I did not sleep for an entire year. The only reason I did not reinstate was because I was SO paranoid of doctors I could not bring myself to see one. Thank GOD I didn’t.
Here is what you might try. Find a nice soft place to sit. And do slow deep “belly breathing.” This technique DOES work to calm such severe anxiety. I spent MONTHS doing this.

When I tell you my wd symptoms were just as bad and maybe even worse, I am NOT lying. Korny: The first couple months I was hallucinating with all five of my senses. I saw things. I heard things. I tasted and smell things…that were not real. At one point I hallucinated a nurse hiding behind my old table fan. She and I had a very real conversation. I remember it quite well. She was quite real to me back then.
I sat on my sofa and rocked back and forth, doing deep breathing and trying to get through just another minute of this torture. This was not easy to do .I also had extreme FEAR and anxiety and was having panic attacks frequently. I also had numerous physical symptoms, too many to list.
Korny, if you are feeling completely out of control go to the nearest ER. But if you can hold on a bit longer, please do. We all want you to succeed.
[…]

Benzo Buddies member paints devastating picture of site, claims Benzo Buddies makes people feel like dying (and some have)

Benzo Buddies is in fact a dangerous place especially for the vulnerable. It is not a support group at all if anything it is a place where people go to commit mental suicide and sometimes actual suicide. I should know I was one of those people. A little bit of backstory: I have been on 3mg alprazolam for over 10 years that is 1mg 3 times a day and I have hit tolerance long ago. It does not do anything to me anymore and I do in fact get interdose withdrawals.

Now not everything that they say is wrong but that is the thing about these places: it has a modicum of truth to support the rest of its crazy. So things like withdrawals, interdose withdrawals, tolerance, dependence, etc. are all very real things but with that said when you add a group of very hyperaware people into a group you are going to have disastrous consequences and this is exactly how it happened to me. Long story short was this, I was going to die.

With my myriad of health problems on top of my mental issues, I had it in my head that there is no way I could put my body through the ringer like these people have done and go through that amount of suffering for that long. If these people who also have mental health problems are basically doing everything short of dying all day every day, what chance does a guy have who was newly diagnosed with congestive heart failure, addison’s disease, diabetes, late stage rheumatism, macular degeneration, asthma, and a low seizure threshold from the meds? Over a period between 28 to 35 my body fell apart with this series of maladies.

My reason for needing to come off of the benzos I had been prescribed was quite simple. I had other deadly issues that I needed to deal with and the combination of meds could be fatal. Similar to taking alcohol and benzos one may potentiate the other or have an adverse affect. I was very scared.

I went to Benzo Buddies because when looking online you see three types of information on benzo withdrawal. You see the “detox” centers that make up about the first 5 pages of a web search like a vulture. Next you will see Benzo Buddies which is almost exclusively the only group for people who talk about benzos at all and lastly you find a few sparse abstracts from studies done on PubMed. There was not a lot of information out there, so I made the dire mistake of joining Benzo Buddies.

From day one I was welcomed. But creepily, I noticed a strange trend. I came into the whole idea of getting off the benzos with a sense of positivity and that left very quickly when I saw the flood of “OMG I WANNA DIE, JESUS SAVE ME NOW” posts. I was startled. I felt sorry for them and then I started reading their stories. Honestly it scared the hell out of me. I mean come on, they have a manual and everything and it seemed they had the market cornered and knew just what to do about it. But no one was getting better unless by better you mean they aren’t killing themselves everyday, which did sometimes happen.

The more I read the more disturbed I became. Out of my many diagnosis one of which is OCD. I couldn’t get the stories out of my head – it was starting to take over my life. Surely thousands of people as a collective cannot be wrong, right? I got very depressed, I began thinking even if I go into a detox program my body could not handle the major sedatives that it would take to ween me off and even if it did I would be in hell. I am agoraphobic and co-dependent. I have not been able to ride ina car or leave my wife’s side for more than a few minutes in years. I would die alone, all alone in some phenobarbitol haze in a run down detox center that was built for opiate addicts and drunks. Pretty much a prison for those in psychological despair and even after that I was told that the withdrawals would last years. I would be in an unbelievable hell for an undefined amount of time and screaming and crying trying just to keep my sanity and in sheer terror and pain.

That is what I was taught at Benzo Buddies. There was no real healing and the further I slipped into the dark the more my brain although suicidally anxious, depressed, and still even then something in my brain kept telling me that this is not adding up.

When I first did research on my benzo (alprazolam) I checked for all the usual things but then the OCD took over. I have called Pfizer’s medical support team to see how it is manufactured I was gathering all the data that I could to combat my ignorance and by the end I found quite a few problems with Benzo Buddies belief in “healing” which just seemed like a place to scare the hell out of others. Here are a few things I learned after doing research, talking to dozens of pharmacists, reading medical journals and abstracts from previous studies and the like.

1. There is no such thing as a stable blood plasma level of benzos in your blood, ever. Depending on what benzo you are taking differing things such as smoking, eating, your age body type, body weight, lifestyle choices ect. All of this is going to change the amount of benzodiazepine in your system every single dosage every single day. Some medicines will make it stronger, some foods weaker. There is no real baseline. So how in the world were these people who are suffering these massive withdrawals having such effects when using water tit-ration and cutting a dose down by 1/300th of the starting dose? If they did not feel the effects of eating too closely to taking a pill or smoking or exercising which can drastically change the amount then why is a 1/300th of a drop affecting them so much?

2. The 1/300th number was not something I pulled out of a hat. Normally people would take the daily dosage, dilute it into 300ml of water and withdraw a certain amount. that should mean that in 300 days your body is cleared of benzos. But how did they factor in for manufacturer’s variances and stop-loss on the process itself? If such small cuts and even micro-tapering with a jewel scale using a nail file is so imperative. Why did they not notice that each pill you throw in your mouth before the taper could have had a +/- 20 percent active ingredient? How did they not feel that from pill to pill it could have varies so greatly but during a taper something as small as .03 is unbearable?

3. What about the people who you do not hear about? Sure, Benzo Buddies has a ton of people but not nearly everyone who has ever been on benzos. “Alprazolam is not only the most commonly prescribed benzodiazepine, but it is the most commonly prescribed psychotropic medication in the United States, accounting for more than 48 million prescriptions dispensed in 2013”. That number is only rising it is now the 11th most prescribed medicine in the world… PERIOD. That is just alprazolam that does not include its other benzo brethren. Now, if it basically had these crushing, debilitating after effects from a biological standpoint we would be in the mist of an epidemic that would be global and there would be so much information on the subject that there would be whole schools of science devoted just to it, but if you do a quick search you find very little. Just rehabs, Benzo Buddies, and a few abstracts.

4. What about the pregnant women, the elderly and the infirmed? These people have to be taken off these meds quickly at a much faster rate than most people on Benzo Buddies who often try over a course of years. What about them? Why are we not hearing en masse about the insanity of people screaming on the sidewalks unable to walk , talk, having massive breakdowns on a huge scale? Why is it so obscure and confined to one group?

5. The GABA idea. Yes when you have brain trauma it needs time to heal but what struck me as being off about the Benzo Buddies idea is the fact that 10-25% of people who are on benzos long term suffer from protracted withdrawal. During this time the brain is “healing” and could take years. But if it truly had a long lasting biological effect shouldn’t it happen to almost everyone who has been on benzos long term? I mean wouldn’t that number be much closer to 90% given that it is altering your brain and that those who do not have protracted withdrawals are actually the black sheep?

6. Everyday pains turn into withdrawal. If you break you arm and you take Vicodin and then 4 hours later you are in excruciating pain are you having a Vicoden withdrawal? No, you are feeling the pain coming back and you need a new dose. When you take away the benzos the same thing happens and it is much, much more noticeable with the shorter acting ones from my experience. You have a bunch of very anxious people, which is they they are taking the meds to start with and are hyperaware suddenly reducing or stopping benzos. Every smell, twinge, tickle, noise, etc suddenly becomes a withdrawal while remaining completely unaware that you felt and noticed all of those things previous to taking benzos and it is just now returning.

Mass hysteria is a powerful force. I have no doubt that these people are suffering but I often wonder if it is needlessly. If they had not had an outer influence telling them of the horrors of what life will be like, the hell they will go through and other needless war stories, how different would it had been? What brought us as a collective to search for a group to share this with? Mainly it is fear and it is fear that permeates Benzo Buddies and throws people into a state of utter dismay. It had me wanting to die and I felt hopeless until I realized that we are looking at just a small fraction of people who have ever taken the medication and not the millions upon millions who are off of it and who do not have to come there to cope. I almost lost my life because of them and that is not support. You never know who is reading nor do you know how desperate they are. To claim to be the pillar of knowledge on the subject to me is dangerous and irresponsible.

I have no doubt that the people there are plagued by anxiety and that what they feel is very very real but I also believe that it is cyclic. I believe it will happen therefore it does. I just hope others, even though scared out of their wits, will notice that seeing all the anxiety of others is not going to help them at all.

Take Care.

http://cesspoolofmadness.com/?page_id=53385#comment-1096983

Jelly legs worse than benzo belly?

Alright, this is not just jelly legs
« on: July 26, 2019, 09:22:11 pm »

[Buddie]

So I am between 2-3 months out of C/t rapid detox (had some overlap of drugs they gave in hospital)
As awful as it gets with a host of symptoms, but my most profound physical symptoms is beyond jelly legs.
My legs started out where I couldn’t lift them or walk at all, and they began contracting nonstop, the clenthcing was very large and you could totally see it happening….they did this for 6 weeks straight without EVER stopping even if I slept, which most of time I didn’t. They then started calming down a bit and have settled into a constant movement of muscles and twitching (both surface and deep)
They have still never stopped. When I walk (can walk from room to room and stand in shower) they just start getting worse.
So here I am, cannot walk on them to make them stronger and they cannot ever rest to heal. Because even when resting them….they are moving. It is an unbelievable, impossible situation.
Anyone relate?
Btw…I am a mom and was a competitive athlete until the last 10 months of all these meds. Not being active is hindering my recovery, and we all know that these drugs have destroyed life as we know it. But not being able to use my legs…is stopping me from everything

Benzo Buddies members drink booze, snort ketamine to deal with failed benzo tapers

Alcohol setback
« on: July 20, 2019, 06:21:46 pm »

[Buddie]

Drank some beer about two weeks ago, and a few hours later I started to feel this weird electric feeling in my chest and my sleep got way worse. Over the next few days I started having all sorts of weird physical sensations. It felt like electricity was surging through my body, my skin was burning, and I had this weird electric butterflies in my stomach type feeling. Horrible anxiety set in, I started to feel like I was losing my mind, and my sleep got worse and worse. The anxiety has faded pretty much entirely and I’m having less of the weird bodily sensations, but my sleep SUCKS now. I’m getting 1-2 hours a night. I was doing so much better before I drank. I felt like I was finally turning a big corner. I was mostly getting 4-6 hours of sleep a night, sometimes a bit more, without taking anything to help me sleep.

I’m 13.5 months off, and am pretty concerned about this lack of sleep. It’s like I’m back to where I was at the start of my withdrawal with sleep.
Anybody else experienced something similar?

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 06:39:11 pm »

[Buddie]

Oops I meant to post this in the post withdrawal recovery support section

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 07:41:32 pm »

[Buddie]

I am sure one of the mods or admins will move it soon. How much beer did you drink?

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 07:51:05 pm »

[Buddie]

Only one tall glass of beer. This is crazy.

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 08:38:35 pm »

[Buddie]

Quote from: [Buddie] on July 20, 2019, 06:39:11 pm
Oops I meant to post this in the post withdrawal recovery support section

I’ll move this over to the Post Withdrawal Support Board! :thumbsup:

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 08:42:41 pm »

[Buddie]

Drinking alcoholic beverages tends to be a highly charged topic here. For some, perhaps many people, drinking can cause a return of withdrawal symptoms. Others may be able to tolerate it fine.

I’ll just share my personal experience. I am not a big drinker, just a glass of wine on occasion and a mixed drink even less often. However, I did not drink anything, not one sip, until I was completely healed. Even then, I didn’t have a drink right away, it took some time.

I’ve been recovered for many years now and do enjoy a glass of wine or a mixed drink at times with no ill effects. Everyone is different in this regard. Personally, I would not rush into beer again if you had a negative reaction.

[…] 🙂

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 09:20:51 pm »

[Buddie]

I had one small glass of wine after many weeks of feeling better. I then had many weeks of feeling worse! And it happened pretty immediately. No more alcohol for me.

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2019, 01:09:30 am »

[Buddie]

Two beers set me back for a month. Still not where I was prior to the beers. Im alcohol free for the foreseeable future.

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 01:14:23 am »

[Buddie]

I experimented with drinking wine a year off my taper. First 1/4 glass, then 1/2 glass, then a whole glass. 3 oz. No problems. So now I drink a glass of wine a couple of times a week.

But everyone is different. How alcohol will affect us is a crap shoot imo. I would definitely wait awhile before trying beer again. And then maybe a small glass.

Hope your sleep improves.

[…]

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2019, 10:37:53 am »

[Buddie]

4 months after finishing a long benzo taper, I slammed 5.5 beers within a two hour period or less. I had to pour out the rest of the 6th beer after realizing that I messed myself up. I was back in acute for several weeks but recovered after a solid month or so. It’s been 18 months since I touched alcohol. I’ve messed with small quantities from tinctures though without any ill effects. I suspect I can have a few drinks if I wanted to now but I just wrapped up tapering some other stuff. I’m thinking by the new year I can drink in moderation hopefully, assuming things work out for me. If I’m ever in a situation where I’m stuck with a bunch of people drinking and I can’t, snorting ketamine helps me get through it, and I don’t feel like I’m missing out so much. Alcohol should be consumed in moderation anyways. I can never go back to binge drinking anyways, which may lead back to benzos. I distinctly recall starting to take benzos to cope with hangovers in the beginning.

Re: Alcohol setback
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 10:53:20 am »

[Buddie]

Quote from: [Buddie] on July 21, 2019, 10:37:53 am
4 months after finishing a long benzo taper, I slammed 5.5 beers within a two hour period or less. I had to pour out the rest of the 6th beer after realizing that I messed myself up. I was back in acute for several weeks but recovered after a solid month or so. It’s been 18 months since I touched alcohol. I’ve messed with small quantities from tinctures though without any ill effects. I suspect I can have a few drinks if I wanted to now but I just wrapped up tapering some other stuff. I’m thinking by the new year I can drink in moderation hopefully, assuming things work out for me. If I’m ever in a situation where I’m stuck with a bunch of people drinking and I can’t, snorting ketamine helps me get through it, and I don’t feel like I’m missing out so much. Alcohol should be consumed in moderation anyways. I can never go back to binge drinking anyways, which may lead back to benzos. I distinctly recall starting to take benzos to cope with hangovers in the beginning.

I think you should stop snorting Ketamine.

Benzo Buddies member goes back on benzos after brutal Ashton taper fails and is doing great!

a lifetime of decisions, and a long weird path back towards reinstatement
« on: July 17, 2019, 06:37:35 pm »

[Buddie]

Hello,

I had initially kept this post to a handful of staff members, but was encouraged to feel free to make a more public post.

Put simply, I am back on benzodiazepines after an extended period off, and while I have deep reservations about this, after eight months it does not yet seem to have been a mistake.

Abbreviated backstory: I was on benzos for a number of years in late adolescence / early adulthood for anxiety based reasons. I had mild tinnitus at that time (possibly attributable to many things, including a distant history of childhood ear infections). Tapering was brutal and took me 14 months, and I wrapped that up sometime in 2005. I don’t recall tinnitus ever being a problem, except briefly during parts of the taper.

In 2010, an acoustic trauma did some significant damage to my auditory system, the tinnitus turned into a wailing monster, and I used benzos again for about a year before tapering again. I spent 2011-2015 basically miserable, highly functional but chronically consumed with the violent, often painful, extremely high pitched noise in my skull. I tried all kinds of things; if there is a supplement, drug, medical practice, massage practice, alternative medicine practice that someone on Google says helped their tinnitus, I probably tried it. I also tried doing “nothing”; I learned to meditate. I learned to sleep with earplugs in spite of the noise. I spent a lot of money; I spent $10,000 to be a lab rat in one clinical trial alone (lots of travel involved).

I remain hopeful about the tinnitus treatments that are in the pipeline, but a little voice continued to say “I need to do something now”, as my life sort of passed before my eyes. I achieved significant professional success. I was able to relocate out the city to a pristine, quiet area in 2016. This did all make me feel better in some ways, but still the noise.

In late 2015, unrelated medical circumstances forced me to consider short-term PRN use of Valium, and, of course, I discovered that it still “worked” as far as taking my mind off the tinnitus. From early 2016 until November of last year, I used Valium PRN; when the tinnitus would become absolutely intolerable, I would take enough to knock it way back (usually 10-20mg over 24-36hrs), and then try to not do that again for 3-4 weeks. I became a parent over this time period, and I realized that the times I was the most medicated were also the times I felt the most joy and connection with my child. By July of 2018, I was agonizing over the idea of reinstatement, but I wasn’t sure.

I made a list of every possible tinnitus remedy that seemed reasonably attested which had not yet been attempted. It was a pretty short list which included some out there ideas like “cervical chiropracty” and “microdose psilocyban”. None the less, I crossed these items off my list as I tried them. Finally, in late November of last year, well supported by a medical team (including a prescribing doctor who is deeply aware of the hazards of benzos and necessity of a slow withdrawal), I elected to resume daily benzo use. After 2 weeks at 25% of the dose I’d previously been on long term, things felt very bad; more or less, I felt like I was in withdrawal, and I almost aborted the experiment then and there. One of my medical team persuaded me to at least attempt my full prior dose for some period of time; I also elected to supplement it with gabapentin based on some research into the combination for tinnitus specifically (and the general observation that gabapentin is much less scary than benzos, so if it can be used to supplement a benzo dose and reduce benzo consumption, that’s probably a win).

More or less I had a one month “honeymoon” where life seemed too good to be true, and as expected, that faded as tolerance became obvious and peripheral side effects also vanished. However, what I am left with, so far, is a life which is much more manageable. It’s hard to put numbers on things, but the tinnitus is more distant, it’s generally less disturbing when it does get my attention, and I’ve been able to make significant progress in my family life, in my professional life, and in therapy, which had been blocked by the state of utter discomfort, misery and despair that my tinnitus had thrown me into. The general observation of my spouse is that I am easier to talk to, more likely to listen to them, less likely to snap, and more likely to be sympathetic and caring in general.

To make a few things clear:
This was my choice and I would not encourage anyone else to do the same thing. No one’s circumstances are identical. For all I know, my use of benzos during developmental years caused problems that couldn’t self-fix, and if not for that I might not be in this situation at all. Likewise, if I had taken better care of my ears, or had better genetics around hearing, tinnitus and anxiety, I might not be in this situation. But, that doesn’t matter: the way things are, is the way things are.

I do not know the long term results of this (and neither do you) – I waited more than six months before posting this because I wanted to be sure a beneficial effect that outweighed my reservations about benzo use, would persist for some period of time after obvious tolerance had set in. It’s entirely possible that this will “stop working” at some point, and I will be left with my generally terrifying tinnitus on top of having to do another taper. But, it’s also possible that won’t happen (one of my family members has taken Klonopin with no loss of efficiency for more than 15 years) – and it’s further possible that some of the tinnitus treatments which are currently in the experimental or early marketing phase will turn out to be extremely effective, at which point attempting another taper might seem very rational to me.

I agonized over this decision more than you can possibly imagine over a five year period; eight months in, it’s given me eight of the best months of the last 10 years of my life. I am happy to answer any reasonable questions, but I ask that you respect my right to autonomy and decision making over my own body.

Benzo addicts resentful of opiate addicts

My reaction to an opiod withdrawal video
« on: July 17, 2019, 09:52:19 pm »

[Buddie]

Just got finished watching a Ted talk by someone who had a rough time coming off of prescribed opiates.

He was on stage crying in the middle of his speech, and my first thought was “Cool story bro. Let me tell you about benzodiazepines”.

I know the opiod issue has a lot in common with the benzo issue and I’m not saying that opiod withdrawal isn’t awful or that we should look down on anyone who has had that experience, but it kind of bothers me that for years I have been dealing with something that most people claim is worse than opiod withdrawal, yet no one really wants to acknowledge that it is a problem.

Where is our Ted talk? At least everyone acknowledges the opiod issue and they are taking some steps to correct it, benzos are barely part of the prescription drug conversation.

Re: My reaction to an opiod withdrawal video
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2019, 12:39:49 am »

[Buddie]

Where is our Ted talk?

Excellent question, […]! I’ve been wondering the same thing. Maybe since it’s not readily accepted quite yet that these drugs have been part of a “silent epidemic,” there’s fear in coming forward? Something is holding people back from full public acknowledgment and disclosure. I would certainly like that to end NOW.

I’d be a poor public speaker with horrible stage fright. But to have someone take that step of giving a TED talk would be a breath of fresh air!