Alee Sun not so sunny

“Let’s say your mom had cancer and some assfuck posted shit about her that she was faking her illness, took pictures of her and distorted her face to make her look crazy and tweaky, hacked into people’s Facebook accounts and posted stuff on their page…” — Alee Sun

People with cancer don’t attack their oncologists.

20 thoughts on “Alee Sun not so sunny

  1. There’s proof when a doctor tells someone it’s okay to cold turkey, or gives someone a very rapid taper (under a month) and then symptoms linger on and on until gradually the person gets better without serious medical intervention. I know someone this happened to, personally, who did not even know about BB or withdrawal until 6 months had gone by.

    I will not say that prescribing benzos is, per se, messing up. I don’t go that far. What I think is unconscionable is prescribing benzos without understanding the withdrawal that may (but does not always occur) and informing patients of this risk. It is not enough to warn people about risks of addiction/dependence. The warning about how terrible the withdrawal could be in a size able minority of patients has to be communicated.

  2. I’m not going to post a name I verify my story on this site because it’s not my place. I have personally been told by a doctor that it’s okay to taper within two weeks, which was not the case for me. I was told by another doctor that it would be almost impossible for me to get addicted to a benzo without having an “addictive personality.” And that I didn’t have an addictive personality (she was technically right- I didn’t get addicted but my body became dependent). I don’t think my own experiences make me a zealot. I don’t recommend a ban on prescribing these drugs but I advocate for informed consent and that is really not as unreasonable as you make it sound.

    The person I know (whose name I will not post), is someone who I know in real life (met after my experience with a benzo. This person’s doctor did tell them they could “just stop.” They luckily did not have seizures and are completely healthy after going through 6 months of bad withdrawal. It’s an anecdotal story but it’s someone I know and trust, so without writing their name or forwarding their info, it’s not going to be verifiable but I trust it happened. You doubt it and I’m not sure why.

    I trust it happened also because I have been given advice that was not really completely accurate by a doctor. I don’t wish that doctor harm but I acknowledge that she was not knowledgeable about benzodiazepines in the slightest bit. She thought the dependence was solely a matter of personality traits… Which you and I both know is plainly false.

    You faced a medical malpractice case. Why is it hard for you to understand this doctors make mistakes or uninformed decisions that can alter a person’s life? I mean, maybe yours wasn’t life altering or anything but surely you’ve seen mistakes made.

  3. I think that Big Pharma absolutely does downplay the side effects, dependence, and subsequent withdrawal of benzodiazepines. That industry in particular usually downplays any bad effects from any drug until the FDA or some other entity/person gets involved.

    I don’t think doctors as a whole conspire with Big Pharma. It’s only doctors who take illegal payments from pharm reps that do that and that’s not solely a benzo issue. I think many doctors just haven’t seen that many patients go through withdrawal because many people can withdraw from benzos and be fine or many people simply stay on their benzo for life.

    I don’t seek to vilify doctors in general. I seek to advocate for better understanding of what benzos can do to some people.

  4. The proof that the pharmaceutical industry downplays the harsh withdrawals and effects of benzos is right there in the patient leaflets. No mention of withdrawal effects, just “talk to your doctor before discontinuing.” Or “talk to your doctor about taking for more than 2 weeks” or “may cause dependence if taken for more than 2-4 weeks.”

    I’m not interested in what Colin had to say about his doctor, unless he directly threatened him/her. I’m guessing that’s not the case.

    You cherry pick a lot of extreme posts from BB. There are also conversations that have nothing to do with animosity toward doctors and are simply human beings supporting other human beings. I may not speak for the membership but you definitely don’t either, being someone who was banned.

    I know more about benzos now than my old doctor did. That’s not an opinion; that’s a fact. If you think that’s delusional, I’m fine with that, but based on all of my previous comments I’m not sure how you could reasonably come to that conclusion.

    I don’t speak for the membership. I’ll reiterate that because nobody speaks for the membership because it’s an online forum and it’s impossible for any one person to speak for all members.

  5. I gave you two factual premises that could lead to that conclusion. If anything, you’re the one presenting opinions. About a website.

    Factual premise A: that’s what the leaflets say
    Factual premise B: people have had severe effects withdrawing from benzos. They are vocal about it. There has been very slow change in any warnings and doctors like my old doctor are still saying things like “oh you’ll be fine because you don’t have an addictive personality.” That is not how dependence works. Maybe addiction. But when you get no cravings, no “reward” or pleasure, that is not addiction. It is physical dependence. My current doctor acknowledges this.

    If you want lawsuits to prove my point, well that’s going to be tough because the Supreme Court has put up significant barriers to sueing generic manufacturers, which are cheaper and therefore much more common than brand name pharmaceuticals.

  6. If you want proof that withdrawal exists I’m not going to continue to repeat my own personal accounts, given that they are “anecdotal” (I don’t need to be convinced because I went through it- once you’ve gone through it, you know)

  7. I also find it very interesting (as I’ve said before) that you choose benzobuddies of all places to unleash your hatred. I suppose it’s not surprising being that you’re a former member and were a member of other benzo sites before you started this.

    It would be one thing if all you did was attack sentiments like “so and so should have been murdered.” But you attack little things like people believing chewing gum revs up symptoms. A symptom of withdrawal can be obsession with symptoms and hypochondria- so yeah maybe chewing gum doesn’t cause any harm (other than having aspartame which is just bad for you in general in high amounts) but that doesn’t mean you have to get all shitty about it and laugh at people. I mean, why do that? You pick specifically people, not just comments. That’s why people accuse of harassment and cyberstalking. You don’t jus to after ideas or statements, you go after people.

  8. And you are victim blaming. How am I being disingenuous? Haven’t you been part of your own kind of dogma? It just so happens to be very pro psych med.

    I take responsibility for taking a benzo in the first place, but that does not make me or anyone else deserving of pain.

    You’re asking me for some sort of smoking gun about the pharmaceutical industry… I get it. I don’t have it, but I don’t need it because it’s seriously one of the only conclusion one can draw from those premises: withdrawal exists, people are not warned of withdrawal, therefore? The pharmaceutical industry downplays benzo withdrawal. What other sane explanation is there? That these companies just don’t know at all? That they never heard Ted Kennedy speak?

    I’ll grant you it’s something I never would have believed if I hadn’t experienced withdrawal for myself, but for pharmaceutical companies to not know at all? The newer benzos have been around since the 80’s. How can they not know? I they do know, I ask you, how can their knowledge and failure to warn be anything but downplaying the danger?

  9. You can say the words cult and Scientology all you want but it doesn’t make benzo support websites or even benzobuddies cults or pro Scientology.

    Also, I did not say the pharmaceutical industry was downplaying addiction. Or even dependence. I said withdrawal, specifically. Meaning the length and severity of withdrawal.

  10. All I can say to the latter part of your comment is LOL. I have a pretty good grasp on reality but thank you for the concern. I never said there was some big conspiracy… I said the pharm companies downplay withdrawal effects. Companies in general have plenty of incentive to downplay any negative effects their products may have, be that withdrawal or something like weight gain. Why aren’t their warnings about withdrawal? Can you answer that? Other than just talking about doctor bashing or victim mentality?

    Look, I think Scientology is despicable and yes, cults do prey on the weak. I’d love for you to present proof that these sites (other than CHHR or whatever the acronym is) are in any way associated with Scientology. The sites, specifically. Not some members… Just the site. Just because SOME members disagree with psychiatry ( and by the way, those that do disagree with psychiatry don’t always disagree with all doctors) does not make them associated with Scientology. There are religions that don’t believe in modern medicine, which would include psychiatry… Are those people scientologists? Are they part of a cult? Is organized religion, by virtue, a cult? I don’t see you going after those religions. Some are against blood transfusions. Personally I think if someone needs a transfusion they should get one, but I’m not going to go rant about it online. You have the right to your opinion it just seems extremely pointed on this one issue. Laser focused.

    Do you have proof that Scientologists visit the site and “recruit.” Do you have proof that Colin is a Scinetologist? You haven’t presented any proof yourself other than certain statements that sound “kooky.” Like the chewing gum thing. That doesn’t prove anything other than someone is afraid of chewing gum while their brain is trying to heal from damage their brain has undergone… That doesn’t mean they’re a Scientologist. People get angry at their doctor – also does not make them a member of a cult or a Scientologist.

    I will say that there are other posts on the site that are just plainly supportive and that encourage people to take breaks from the internet, encourage people to try to calm down and not pile on fear. There are many people there, that despite their own pain, talk people down and help them. People come back time and time again saying BB was a lifeline for them. So you can say BB never helped anyone but I know that’s not true. Maybe it didn’t help you, and that’s unfortunate (I’m not being pejorative or sarcastic there), but it does help some people.

  11. Saying something is downplayed is not the same thing as claiming there is a conspiracy, but ok. A conspiracy connotes some sort of grand master plan. I don’t think there’s some Oz like man behind the curtain twirling his mustache. I just know that corporations care about bottom lines and will generally do what they can to promote products rather than sabotage themselves. The very purpose of a corporation is to pool capital and minimize liability so it’s not exactly a logistical leap to say “Hey this corporation may not be 100% forthcoming about the negatives of their product because they want a healthy profit margin.”

    I have never seen anybody on any benzo group advocate for Scientology. I guess I’ll have a look at that link but something tells me it’s not going to make a definitive, direct correlation.

  12. Hah. You literally linked me to a post about a comment I made the meaning of which you misconstrued because I wasn’t prescrise enough in my language. You obviously are not understanding what I’m saying: even if someone is antipsychiatry, it doesn’t make them a Scientologist or even remotely connected to scientology. And not even all BB members are actually antipsychiatry or anti doctor. In fact, many members arent. But ok. Also I’ve seen the Facebook groups. Same argument there. The truth is you have no proof that Scientolgy is recruiting members of these groups. I’m frankly tired of repeating myself. Nobody is forcing me here so I guess I’ll just stop posting because you’re obviously hell bent on believing whatever fits your vel

  13. I didn’t bat an eye? That’s not exactly true. As I’ve said, many of the comments get deleted.

    I don’t doctor bash. I’m just cautious because I have been given bad advice before. I don’t take all advice given to me-not from doctors and not from the forums either. I’m not a “doctor basher” because I can recognize systemic problems and because I know mistakes were made in my care. You really harp on that. I hate to tell you this, but no professional is perfect and telling people to not question professionals at all is very misguided. You seem to think any critical thinking or the slightest questioning amounts to “bashing.”

    I’m only digging myself deeper into a hole insofar as your opinion goes. I’m pretty comfortable with what I’ve said other than the occasional typo. And even typos aren’t so bad.

    For literally years you’ve been on this self-appointed crusade to save the doctors. I don’t think they need your help. They’re living their lives and making decent livings despite what people on the internet are saying.

    Maybe help the doctors that actually are in danger, such as abortion providers, or organizations like planned parenthood who face federal defunding even though they provide much needed medical services to low income women and families.

    I hope you can channel some of your rage into something that actually helps people someday.

  14. Okay. You just keep on drinking your own kook aid there and I’ll leave it alone. I’ll do my own constructive things.

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