Addict loses mind after grueling Ashton cut and suffer taper

Itching Returns
« on: October 31, 2016, 11:17:59 pm »

[Buddie]

So i used to get itching back in acute and for a short time after that. It finally went away around month 7. Now it’s back! Is this normal? The itching creeps up in the morning and evening hours.

Do symptoms leave and then come back? I’m 11 months out at this point and thought symptoms would be lifting. I will say my anxiety is slowly lifting!!! 🙂

You can get off benzos without a grueling multi-year taper

My mind is boggled
« on: June 28, 2016, 09:45:35 pm »

[Buddie]

I know a woman who just went to detox three weeks ago to get off a painkiller and Xanax. The reason she went is because she ran out of Xanax for 2 days and had a seizure while driving. She didn’t have a seizure during detox and the only symptom she has had this entire time is an elevated heart rate. She took the Xanax for 14 years and was up to 3 mgs+ a day. I told her about what I’ve been going through and made her read the stories on here before she went and pleaded with her not to CT. I think now she really thinks I’m nuts! My mind is just boggled that it can be that easy for someone, though I am thrilled for her.

Crippling years-long Ashton tapers forcing addicts to decide between a sink bath or continuing to wallow in filth

And why not?...?
« on: June 27, 2016, 02:16:14 pm »

[Buddie]

This is a question that I have learned to ask myself a lot. Let’s face it, we have all been using all of our energy to battle symptoms. And why not… use this energy for something else? Here goes…

1. Put carpet shampoo on just one area of the carpet, let it dry, and vacuum it up? Even if you feel you’re going to fall, you see that you don’t, and in that one moment you smile.

2. Slap a swiffer cloth on the mop and force it around that nasty kitchen floor. Can’t hurt can it? If the spasms in your face get worked up, WEAR EM OUT!

3. Take two sips of the cold Coke you have in the fridge. It might make you stand up straighter.

4. Challenge yourself to unload the dishwasher. It helps with back and arm strength.

5. Talk to yourself out loud. Practice difficult vocabulary to prove to yourself ” if I can say that, I’m o.k.”.

6. Burst out in laughter at yourself. Imagine yourself convulsing over the funniest thing you ever heard. Here’s one : ” He/She is crazier than a FRUIT BAT”! This lets you know if you can laugh, you’re not headed to the E.R.

7. Make your bed. Even if the covers are a tossed up mess (proof you got no sleep last night) it will give you some comfort to try again tonight.

8. Walk out and get the mail . ” I didn’t say read it!”

9. Put on clean clothes. Even if you can only take a sink bath, it makes you feel like a functioning part of society! At least you smell better!

10. Lastly, look at all those little things you did today! Be proud of them IT WILL GIVE YOU CONFIDENCE FOR TOMORROW!

SMILES EVERYONE… YOUR BODY AND MIND WILL FOLLOW! I?

Jana Hill of benzodetoxrecovery.com / milk micro-taper fame – reinstates on benzos

Jana has reinstated!!!!
« on: June 27, 2016, 11:57:56 pm »

[Buddie]

I have it on solid authority. Evidently her lingering problems from her old site and her disappointment over not getting a patent for her milk microtitration method put her in a wave. She now realized that she tapered too quickly the first time so she has reinstated to 1mg K and will do a proper slow taper this time. Pulling for her.

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2016, 12:27:50 pm »

[Buddie]

OMG !

Jana from that benzodetoxrecovery site ?

I don’t know her history, but it looks like she really messed up. Of course, that’s not uncommon.

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2016, 05:51:41 am »

[Buddie]

I have no idea who this poor person even is, but do you two realize you sound rather gleeful about her troubles? You can say that you’re not, but you chose these words, and that’s how they come across. 

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2016, 02:02:42 pm »

[Buddie]

Putting words in my mouth, […] ? You’re one to talk !

I’d never be gleeful about something like that. It’s tragic.

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2016, 05:37:42 pm »

[Buddie]

Okay, I misspoke. It was […] who sounded gleeful with this exclamation-pointed announcement. You, […], were merely judgmental. Since to reinstate means a person was at least off the drugs for some period of time–a goal you yourself are apparently yet to achieve in this journey–where do you get off tut-tutting that she “really messed up?”

And what was the point of posting this sad bit of news in the first place? 

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2016, 09:13:31 pm »

[Buddie]

We have a Report to Moderator about comments on this thread. I have to agree, what is the point of posting this? It’s gossip and it’s unsubstantiated.

That’s my personal opinion, not my ‘admin’ opinion, by the way.

I don’t see any rules broken here, although the quibbling is borderline and needs to stop. However, if this thread continues to be gossipy and contentious it will be locked.

Thanks,
[…]

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 09:21:39 pm »

[Buddie]

The thought of someone suffering so much as to reinstate is heartbreaking.

Re: Jana has reinstated!!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2016, 11:39:34 pm »

Colin

There are some unsubstantiated remarks to this thread, but there are some important points I feel I should address irrespective of the factual basis for the claims about Jana’s ‘reinstatement.’

Hi […],

It seems that you (and probably the majority of those reading this thread) are unaware that for many years Jana had her own benzodiazepine withdrawal support forum, where she promoted a system of withdrawal (Dual TitrationTM) which she claimed to be superior to all other methods. She would personally devise individualised withdrawal regimes for her members based upon a secret recipe. She eventually filed for a patent on her method – the patent made little sense to me or anyone I asked to review it. I had nothing to say about Jana and her formula until: 1) her method and her forum were being heavily promoted at BB by a few of her members; and 2) she published her (hitherto secret) method via a patent application.

There was a long thread developing at BB about Jana’s method and patent. At this point I posted some detailed remarks about her method and its promotion at BB. My comments did not go down well with the few individuals attempting to promote Jana’s method at BB. Please note, I never disallowed discussion at BB regarding Jana’s method, her forum or her patent. However, I did heavily (and quite rightly) critique her system and how it was being promoted at BB and elsewhere. It is worth noting that at Jana’s forum (and at BB via her supporters), Prof. Ashton’s protocols were being (groundlessly) demonised as “cut and suffer”. You can read more about this matter and my comments from here, onwards:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=72390.msg973423#msg973423

Anyway, that’s the background. The thing is, if I reinstated benzodiazepines, with my higher online profile within these circles, it probably would be news around here and related spaces. But, it really shouldn’t be. Not, at least, in such ‘shocked tones’. If I reinstated, I could rightly point out that I do not promote my personal experience of withdrawal as being any more valid than that of anyone else. Nor do I promote a personally devised method as being superior to all other methods. In short, I am not a ‘withdrawal guru’ and am careful in how I promote myself to avoid such a mistaken perception. Jana is no more immune than me or anyone else to problems which might lead her to reinstate. My criticism is that Jana should not have played the role of ‘withdrawal guru’. I’ve seen this elsewhere, within and without the benzodiazepine withdrawal community. It is unhealthy and can lead to unrealistic and/or mistaken expectations of outcome (good or bad). Seeing your ‘guru’ falter might lead you to question your own progress. I am sure that being ‘guru’ to many people going through benzodiazepine withdrawal was ever Jana’s intention, but if you do play such a role, others will feel let down when others point out problems with your method, or you suddenly close your forum and cease providing tailored withdrawal services, or when you ‘fail’ in some manner. This is one of the main reasons why BB is organised as a peer-support environment.

I must also address the proposal of reinstatement of benzodiazepines after very many years of abstinence ‘to do the taper properly’: pharmacologically speaking, this makes absolutely no sense! Of course, such a reinstatement does not equate with the reversal of a cut because an individual has tapered too quickly and cannot bear the withdrawal symptoms. Nor does it equate it with someone who has quit (for however long) who subsequently decides to reinstate for whatever (considered) reason. However, I really do wish to nip in the bud the proposal that after a protracted period of abstinence from benzodiazepines that there are any good reasons for reinstatement for the sole purpose of ‘withdrawing again, properly’. I’ve seen this idea crop quite a number of times over the years. It just does not work like that. The three realistic options would be: 1) stay off benzodiazepines; 2) reinstate because it is your (and your doctor’s) considered opinion that this is best for you; or 3) reinstate with a goal of withdrawing sometime in the future when circumstances are better. But to reinstate (after many, many years abstinence) to ‘do withdrawal right’? No way! That’s plain wrong.

Quote from: [Buddie] on June 27, 2016, 11:57:56 pm
I have it on solid authority. Evidently her lingering problems from her old site and her disappointment over not getting a patent for her milk microtitration method put her in a wave. She now realized that she tapered too quickly the first time so she has reinstated to 1mg K and will do a proper slow taper this time. Pulling for her.

I wish Jana very best – I really do. I do not criticise Jana or anyone else who wishes to reinstate their use of benzodiazepines (I refer you all to the BB Mission Statement). But for the benefit of our members and anyone else who might read this thread: there is absolutely no pharmacological benefit/basis to the reinstatement of benzodiazepines years after withdrawal purely for the purposes of supposedly withdrawing again, but this time, ‘properly’.

Ashton tapers cause melting face

Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« on: June 07, 2016, 02:52:54 pm »

[Buddie]

Hello everyone:

I don’t know if right place to post and i hesitate to do so but I’ve had severe physical symptoms and am looking to see if anyone else has experienced this where it has gone away or at least gotten better…. the ones most distressing and pure torture and where I […] can’t do this anymore are:

Muscle contractions and spasms in forehead …above eyebrows and in between eyebrows….. You can visibly see the muscles move and go up and down back and forth…. Pure pure utter torment ( the worst pain you can imagine)

Eyes involuntarily close shut and squeeze and jerk for seconds moments at a time

Nerves underneath left eye especially, jump upwards, shake ,vibrate and pull and cramp like crazy (and also inside of eye) sometimes staying in a locked position

Jaw involuntarily jerks back and forth from left to right; teeth grinding into each other, sometimes clenches really tight

The muscles in my lips will contract and pull from left to right and also tick …sometimes they will spasm where the muscles in my my lips are making my mouth pull all the way to the left
The muscles in my bottom lip will actually pull my bottom lip inside out and downwards and will pull and contract and vibrate

Sometimes its so severe on my left side that the forehead eyes jaw and mouth will all contract at once..TORTURE and pain.

I actually have to wear tape on my face to minimize the movement and pain

My chin also spasms up and down

These are sobad at times I have to put athletic like tape under my eyes and forehead to minimize the pain.and movement.

None of my mouth movements are so much as grimacing as they are more like muscles […] spasming and contracting out of control….

I am so desperate for encouragement as I can no longer bear it….. As you can imagine I have been housebound for 14 months …..I could never go out in public this way…. It is hideous…

The hopelessness and despair are off the charts…. I have the most severe health anxiety a person could ever have….my heart constantly feels like its going to jump out of my chest

I wish I had the ability to be of more encouragement and help to others because that is exactly what I would be doing but I can’t even help myself… I feel so alone with all of this…

If someone can be kind enough to give me some hope and encouragement or ideas of what I could to. I rarely if ever get relief….. I am on the verge of having a breakdown from all the symptoms…….
This has devestated my life…. I can’t sustain this…

thank you to anyone who has read and can sympathize…..

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2016, 03:24:01 pm »

[Buddie]

Hi, I too had many strange and disturbing muscle symptoms. These will go away once you’re off and well into healing. This is from the Ashton Manual:

Benzodiazepines are efficient muscle relaxants and are used clinically for spastic conditions ranging from spinal cord disease or injury to the excruciating muscle spasms of tetanus or rabies. It is therefore not surprising that their discontinuation after long-term use is associated with a rebound increase in muscle tension. This rebound accounts for many of the symptoms observed in benzodiazepine withdrawal. Muscle stiffness affecting the limbs, back, neck and jaw are commonly reported, and the constant muscle tension probably accounts for the muscle pains which have a similar distribution. Headaches are usually of the “tension headache” type, due to contraction of muscles at the back of the neck, scalp and forehead – often described as a “tight band around the head”. Pain in the jaw and teeth is probably due to involuntary jaw clenching, which often occurs unconsciously during sleep.

At the same time, the nerves to the muscles are hyperexcitable, leading to tremor, tics, jerks, spasm and twitching, and jumping at the smallest stimulus. All this constant activity contributes to a feeling of fatigue and weakness (“jelly-legs”). In addition, the muscles, especially the small muscles of the eye, are not well co-ordinated, which may lead to blurred or double vision or even eyelid spasms (blepharospasm).

None of these symptoms is harmful, and they need not be a cause of worry once they are understood. The muscle pain and stiffness is actually little different from what is regarded as normal after an unaccustomed bout of exercise, and would be positively expected, even by a well-trained athlete, after running a marathon.

There are many measures that will alleviate these symptoms, such as muscle stretching exercises as taught in most gyms, moderate exercise, hot baths, massage and general relaxation exercises. Such measures may give only temporary relief at first, but if practised regularly can speed the recovery of normal muscle tone – which will eventually occur spontaneously.

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2016, 03:39:34 pm »

[Buddie]

Bless your heart […] for responding….. I truly mean it from the core of my being….I didn’t think anyone would because normally people don’t respond to my symptoms which is why I usually don’t post them… It […] creates more fear from the lack of responses…. I keep thinking someone somewhere would be able to give me a life raft or […] the tiniest glimmer of hope…

Because this is my second time around my despair has overtaken me……

Thank you […]…

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2016, 04:14:49 pm »

[Buddie]

Anyone else please? any words of encouragement would be so appreciated…. Please keep me going….

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2016, 04:23:59 pm »

[Buddie]

Hey there. I’m very new to this however, I have had some of the issues you’re talking about in your post. You’re soooooo not alone. I had a pretty traumatic experience as well, and lets say it still affects me every minute of every day.

Here’s what has helped take that ‘edge’ off. My spouse got me some lavender bath salts. Put them in the tub, sat me down in the tub, and turned the water on as warm as I could tolerate. I soaked for over 2 hours. I was doing this a couple times a day. […] breathing deep while soaking. Like really deep. I was trying to push my belly out of the water deep breathing.

It didn’t ‘cure’ anything, but it really did take that final ‘edge’ off and really helped. It kept me focused on breathing and staying still and it felt good. Again, i’m super new here, and new to all these issues, but when i’m at that ‘point’, i do the bath thing, and it keeps me ‘afloat’ for a good solid hour or 2. Hang in there.

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2016, 04:35:06 pm »

[Buddie]

Quote from: [Buddie] on June 07, 2016, 04:23:59 pm
Hey there. I’m very new to this however, I have had some of the issues you’re talking about in your post. You’re soooooo not alone. I had a pretty traumatic experience as well, and lets say it still affects me every minute of every day.

Here’s what has helped take that ‘edge’ off. My spouse got me some lavender bath salts. Put them in the tub, sat me down in the tub, and turned the water on as warm as I could tolerate. I soaked for over 2 hours. I was doing this a couple times a day. […] breathing deep while soaking. Like really deep. I was trying to push my belly out of the water deep breathing.

It didn’t ‘cure’ anything, but it really did take that final ‘edge’ off and really helped. It kept me focused on breathing and staying still and it felt good. Again, i’m super new here, and new to all these issues, but when i’m at that ‘point’, i do the bath thing, and it keeps me ‘afloat’ for a good solid hour or 2. Hang in there.

Oh my gosh! You mean you’ve experienced some of these symptoms?!?! Thank you for the bath tip so much…. I’m […] feeling I can’t endure no matter what I tried because it feels so permanent and its been going on so long….

If you don’t mind me asking when did it start and for how long….. I’m crying so much right now because someone responded to me.. Thank you […]……

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2016, 04:45:10 pm »

[Buddie]

Quote from: [Buddie] on June 07, 2016, 04:35:06 pm
If you don’t mind me asking when did it start and for how long….. I’m crying so much right now because someone responded to me.. Thank you […]……

Honestly the, what I called ticks, lasted a few weeks. It wasn’t fun. I thought I was literally going insane, and that I had caused permanent damage. The majority of the ticks faded with time, but I still have one… One that more bugs me rather than hurts or makes me feel crummy. My ear drum feels like it’s constantly popping in and out at such a slow pace, that i can literally fell it popping like a muscle twitch. Geez it’s annoying. I’ll pray for ya that this’ll clear up. I found solace that with time, some of my symptoms faded. Some are still roaring… but none of the symptoms you posted about up there are still persistent in me at least.

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2016, 05:11:53 pm »

[Buddie]

I do empathize with you. The aim must be difficult. Even though I don’t have those symptoms I do have bad amxiety. I did have jolts through my body and occasional
twitches but not so much anymore. For me the insomnia makes me anxious and dizzy so sometimes I loose my balance but haven’t fallen yet. You will get through this. The brain needs time to heal itself. You will triumph.

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2016, 05:15:04 pm »

[Buddie]

Hello pbh,
I am so sorry to hear about your symptoms. I’ve had a real problem with grinding my teeth. I almost always chew a toothpick and that helps. Sugarless gum also helps. Maybe that would help your jaw clinching and teeth grinding? Maybe try massaging your face, temples with your fingers gently. I’ve used a hot rice pack on my forehead for relaxation. You will get better. I […] wanted to respond even if I am of little help. […] to offer some encouragement. ??

Re: Does anyone have or had this? Please Respond...so Desperate
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2016, 05:38:56 pm »

[Buddie]

Every single person that has responded thank you so much and you have helped me….. I appreciate it very much…..The fear is still so ever present that this is permanent….. My facial symptoms have increased slowly over time and I’ve been dealing with this now for 15 months (maybe it is time to see a real doctor, not a Benzo Buddies doctor – editor) at varying intensities at different times of the day….

That is why I become so frantic and utterly hopeless…..dealing with this for so long and going thru another taper is more then I can bear…. I don’t think I can survive ….